tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3003200974688946575.post5427335911741693849..comments2023-09-02T04:30:46.604-07:00Comments on Musings of an intrigued nobody: Urgh, bloody Atheism Plus...SoggyMoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12357790920813258281noreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3003200974688946575.post-32627663092431904072013-05-05T15:42:58.794-07:002013-05-05T15:42:58.794-07:00Do you suppose all this nonsense from the A+ &...Do you suppose all this nonsense from the A+ & Skepchick crowd is peculiarly American? I have a sense it is. <br /><br />One minute people were arguing the toss about skepticism and atheism, the next it was the Glorious Loyalty Oath Crusade and either you paid obeisance or you were persona non grata.<br /><br />I'm hoping it won't last. Either the current Myers/Watson crowd get bored and or grow up; or else everyone else recognises them for the cliquish irrelevent bores they are and ignores them. <br /><br />Fingers crossed.<br /><br /><br />Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12162148117929189762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3003200974688946575.post-57296505061161043422012-09-24T04:51:41.009-07:002012-09-24T04:51:41.009-07:00Excellent, reasoned and, more to the point, realit...Excellent, reasoned and, more to the point, reality based post. I had the bad form to try and inject a bit of commentary regarding how the A+ leaders were doing serious damage to their supposed cause by there overly aggressive and broad brush approach. I was promptly dismissed and shoved over into the 'obviously misogynist' group. The net result was my researching the various forums, including A+ itself, and came away with the inescapable conclusion that the group leaders are inherently ego driven Orwellian Stalanists. What a frightful bunch.<br /><br />I am not a participant in the convention scene, but I found a post by someone who is particularly interesting. They theorized that A+ is being driven by the desire to control and monolize the convention circuit by vilifying the competition. Not sure if there is anything to that, but it does not take much of a stretch to see the potential.Jim Sabistonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18128614396558369112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3003200974688946575.post-16682566695487620182012-09-16T16:38:14.641-07:002012-09-16T16:38:14.641-07:00Let me get this straight.
RW blocks you from her T...Let me get this straight.<br />RW blocks you from her Twitter feed but feels entirely justified in screencapping your tweets?<br /><br />Late to the party but glad I discovered your blog.Dornier Pfeilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00980920859012236092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3003200974688946575.post-60467178017032777892012-09-13T04:02:01.701-07:002012-09-13T04:02:01.701-07:00Holy hell... thanks for this, Ray, I had no idea!
...Holy hell... thanks for this, Ray, I had no idea!<br /><br />Why is it that if the alleged victim is female and the alleged perpetrator male we don't need anything like evidence or proof to publicly hang him?! It's just bizarre, and it's insulting - VERY insulting, actually - to the women among us who prefer to be rational in our dealings with people, of whatever gender or sex.SoggyMoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12357790920813258281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3003200974688946575.post-8316847124527211492012-09-13T03:57:18.246-07:002012-09-13T03:57:18.246-07:00Hahahahaha - I have to admit, Katie, I hadn't ...Hahahahaha - I have to admit, Katie, I hadn't seen the cat thing quite in that light!<br /><br />Actually, I have a stray I've sort of half-adopted too; he can't come in the house because he's an entire tom and he sprays everywhere (plus he beats up my two cats), but he has a bed in the garage and food left for him every day.<br /><br />You're right, though - it would never have occurred to me to use him as an analogy for all the millions of first-world women who're downtrodden, overlooked and in desperate need of my protection if only they could be made to realise it!SoggyMoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12357790920813258281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3003200974688946575.post-64333856465833679822012-09-13T03:54:49.581-07:002012-09-13T03:54:49.581-07:00Hi Cristall,
Thanks for your support. I have to s...Hi Cristall,<br /><br />Thanks for your support. I have to say, I've been pleasantly surprised by how many women have been willing to speak against the A+ers - not least because it inevitably makes them/us a target for all sorts of bizarre and completely unjustified accusations!<br /><br />xxxSoggyMoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12357790920813258281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3003200974688946575.post-36596136417814383132012-09-12T22:51:09.746-07:002012-09-12T22:51:09.746-07:00Stef was not the first, Watson has a long history ...Stef was not the first, Watson has a long history of drumming up hatred against people and trying to destroy them personally and professionally. See e.g. her despicable campaign against the respected scientist Laurence Krauss, accusing him of trafficking in child sex slaves. http://www.thearmchairskeptic.com/2011/05/rebecca-watson-engages-in-demagoguery.html She is a very vindictive woman and an extremely nasty piece of work. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08130177257091019950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3003200974688946575.post-17959954484223780322012-09-11T12:36:10.545-07:002012-09-11T12:36:10.545-07:00It makes me want to cry, it really does. One liter...It makes me want to cry, it really does. One literally cannot disagree with - or even in the mildest terms query - what these people say without being hung out to dry as a misogynist (if you're male) or a sister-punisher/"man-ally" (if you're female).<br /><br />There are two points that have occurred to me since writing the OP above; they're probably don't justify their own new post (although correct me if you think otherwise), but I'll mention them here.<br /><br />1: I am not VAIN enough to be the FTBlogger brand of feminist. I realised that from the discussion you got pulled into, Feanor, it was fascinating in a sick sort of way. I don't see how these people can go through life thinking the only possible reason a man could speak to them is because he wants to hit on them. The example I remember is "watcha reading?" in a coffee shop, which elicited the somewhat disproportionate response "fuck off". Now, I don't deny for a moment that some - possibly even most - men who approach women they don't know do so at least partly with the hope that they might get laid. I'm CERTAIN that happens a lot. But I can't see the mentality; on the one hand, I'm not vain enough to assume every man on the planet wants to shag me, and on the other hand my opinion of myself is not so low that I consider my body the only part of me in which a man could possibly feel an interest. I just find it bizarre.<br /><br />2: A related point I want to make about the knee-jerk "fuck off" response some of these women claim they have is that I can't see much to distinguish it from the caricature of the hilariously sheltered straight guy who goes to a gay bar for the first time and spends the entire evening with his back pressed to the wall because he assumes every other man in the room will rape him given half a chance. We would rightly call such a man homophobic, whether we found it more insulting or amusing. Why is it OK for A+ers and their ilk to make precisely the same assumption about every man who speaks to them? Who the HELL do these women think they are?!SoggyMoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12357790920813258281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3003200974688946575.post-66005675675025589812012-09-11T12:34:02.779-07:002012-09-11T12:34:02.779-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.SoggyMoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12357790920813258281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3003200974688946575.post-39946557570780578652012-09-10T12:22:58.642-07:002012-09-10T12:22:58.642-07:00Jesus fucking christ.
I'm not sure what poses...Jesus fucking christ.<br /><br />I'm not sure what posessed me but having failed to post a few comments on RW's blog, because she vets everything and blocks anything that disagrees with her in a well-argued way, I had a bit of spare time over the weekend so I weighed into the discussion here after seeing some guy who wasn't great with words being completely pilloried: www.rawstory.com/2012/09/07/its-really-time-for-the-harassment-to-end/.<br /><br />I ended up wasting a third, maybe half of my weekend debating with these nutters. A few engaged with me properly but most did their best to vilify me because I dared suggest that if they're in social environments they should expect social interaction, or because I took issue with the statement that "From the cradle, men are told that they are better than women and that women are there to serve them."<br /><br />I was even told by the writer of that article that "100 of the men who insist on the label 'some' be attached to posts where it's implied by context are in the group being criticised."<br /><br />REALLY?!?<br /><br />I ripped her apart for that one and never got another response from her but all my other posts were picked apart for the slightest error of language that could possibly be taken to interpret that I was saying something I clearly never meant to say.<br /><br />Don't get me wrong, I was warned, so I'm not complaining. But this has been an interesting experience for me. I'm kinda glad I did it, although I'm a bit concerned that despite my best of intentions I was drawn into saying or implying things I didn't really mean and thus may have done damage to my (our?) cause instead of having helped it. I'd be grateful if anyone could give me some honest feedback - the discussions are long though.The Curious Tinkererhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12308797577507843732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3003200974688946575.post-15779899275684484682012-09-10T07:51:02.675-07:002012-09-10T07:51:02.675-07:00Excellent comment. My mother was very similar, a p...Excellent comment. My mother was very similar, a pragmatic feminist who took little interest in victimhood & academic theory as she was busy successfully taking on the patriarchy in the NHS. I don't think the A+ crowd realise how US-centric it all is, but everyone is apparently supposed to know all about US academic feminist jargon, plus a smattering of US high school insults & buy into it 100%, cultural or intellectual differences can sod off.When I first encountered A+ I was broadly sympathetic, but the more I read(Carrier's infamous blog was the last straw) the more I cringed.Andrinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05160980739384958828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3003200974688946575.post-2717898768327792532012-09-10T04:58:47.771-07:002012-09-10T04:58:47.771-07:00Well, that's the beauty of claiming ownership ...Well, that's the beauty of claiming ownership of virtue; anyone who questions you in any way is delcaring themselves the enemy of all that is good and true. And as such, they can be dismissed without actually addressing their arguments!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3003200974688946575.post-47232646945923364422012-09-10T04:55:12.764-07:002012-09-10T04:55:12.764-07:00Apparently, the gist of the arguments against your...Apparently, the gist of the arguments against your post is "YOU may not be a victim, but a lot of us are! And you have to respect our victimhood!"<br /><br />This is really, really inspiring stuff for the movement to get women equal treatment and equal respect... crying whenever anyone threatens their sacred victim status.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3003200974688946575.post-82932306029460448032012-09-09T11:33:34.755-07:002012-09-09T11:33:34.755-07:00Their answer seems to be that if you disagree then...Their answer seems to be that if you disagree then you are uneducated and they provide you with reference material to educate you. Then having read their stilted platform if you still disagree you are a bigot.mooglierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10709270738268194845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3003200974688946575.post-49759232545673412072012-09-09T10:02:47.087-07:002012-09-09T10:02:47.087-07:00The brilliant thing about A+ is that it poisons th...The brilliant thing about A+ is that it poisons the well for disagreement almost perfectly. It's like "Pro-Life". If you're against them, you must be against life. WHY ARE YOU PRO-DEATH.<br /><br />So because you're in disagreement with A+, you must be against equal rights for all, etc. <br /><br />It's really brilliant, in a twisted sort of way. But in any event, it allows them to dismiss all disagreement as coming from misogynists, chill girls, etc.<br /><br />I'm still rather proud of how Ophelia used her massive philosophical skills to crown me a "Vicious Piece of Shit". <br /><br />I almost want to make T-shirts for it: Ophelia Benson Hates Me.John C. Welchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10293533581874023414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3003200974688946575.post-68440709370564732592012-09-09T07:30:38.559-07:002012-09-09T07:30:38.559-07:00When I saw your tweet in RW's blog I was confu...When I saw your tweet in RW's blog I was confused. If that was what she was referring to as hateful misogynist attacks then, well, I don't know. The logic circuits in my brain are smoking and about to blow. I am glad you have been able to state so clearly a rational response.<br />Frankushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07001524233372346374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3003200974688946575.post-78325809114807324242012-09-08T17:19:53.248-07:002012-09-08T17:19:53.248-07:00You hit the nail on the head! Those are the exact ...You hit the nail on the head! Those are the exact reasons I will not join the atheist+ movement. It's so nice to read a blog by someone with a rational head on their shoulders. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3003200974688946575.post-82992324069829798762012-09-08T17:14:17.499-07:002012-09-08T17:14:17.499-07:00I read the Rebecca Watson blog post where she equa...I read the Rebecca Watson blog post where she equates her feminism work with saving a stray cat. Thanks, Watson. I wasn't even aware we all needed saving.<br /><br />Of course, her bio at the end says she leads a team of "skeptical female bloggers." I've been told by her ilk tht using "female" is sexist and to use "woman" instead. I think she's a secret MRA sent to make women activists look bad. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3003200974688946575.post-29593824290604020492012-09-08T16:09:37.720-07:002012-09-08T16:09:37.720-07:00Well, became a member just to show some support fr...Well, became a member just to show some support from another female atheist(A black one at that,lol). I share in your opinion about SkepChic/A+'ers. Hope those nutters will soon find another chew-toy (Perhaps one actually deserving of their wrath, if there is such a thing.). Thank you for a female voice from this side of their imposed divide. christallh24https://www.blogger.com/profile/16323838715979701900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3003200974688946575.post-53596443382983936262012-09-08T05:10:06.404-07:002012-09-08T05:10:06.404-07:00Thank you for your (marginally confusing) words of...Thank you for your (marginally confusing) words of encouragement, you're very kind.<br /><br />If anyone's interested, this is a link to the post you mention: I find it baffling that my single tweet defending the 99% of men who're decent people has been enough to tell someone I'm a "woman basher" with daddy issues. On the other hand, if that sort of baseless pop schlock amateur psychology is what they fall back on, I sort of can't help taking that as a commendation!<br /><br />http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/09/07/its-really-time-for-the-harassment-to-end/SoggyMoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12357790920813258281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3003200974688946575.post-91612955273872821672012-09-08T04:59:51.094-07:002012-09-08T04:59:51.094-07:00Absolutely, Feanor, I agree completely.
The only ...Absolutely, Feanor, I agree completely.<br /><br />The only argument I've yet seen against simply using (or even adapting!) the label "humanist" is pretty well summed up in McCreight's tweet as shared in the OP. Pretty much sums it up for me.<br /><br />Bluntly, I think there's a lot of ego at play here - they want to think of themselves as trailblazers and progressives, and they've got so carried away with that idea they've totally failed to notice there's nothing remotely new about their values. So what's the response when someone politely raises their hand to say "hang on, we've been doing this for years"? "Well, you're a man/sister punisher". And they have a go at the rest of us for not being inclusive enough?!<br /><br />Right then.SoggyMoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12357790920813258281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3003200974688946575.post-59815096115005830452012-09-08T04:53:04.290-07:002012-09-08T04:53:04.290-07:00Hi Kieran, good to hear from you in more than 140 ...Hi Kieran, good to hear from you in more than 140 characters!<br /><br />I will concede that I've perhaps been a little guilty of deliberately winding people up about this whole thing, because honestly at this stage the more infuriated they get the more ridiculous they look. Marcotte's post, for example, better highlights the judgmental, misandrist and jingoistic attitude of the A+ movement than I ever could.<br /><br />I know I keep saying it, but again if you step back and look at what I *actually* said in that tweet - that wasn't directed at anyone in particular - the level of response it's generated is beyond ludicrous.<br /><br />xxxSoggyMoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12357790920813258281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3003200974688946575.post-50285340988569657602012-09-08T04:48:24.647-07:002012-09-08T04:48:24.647-07:00That's almost the bit that bothers me the most...That's almost the bit that bothers me the most, Prepagan. I have an aunt who was in her day a *genuine*, trailblazing feminist (and secularist, actually); among other things, she was the first woman ever to be promoted to a particular level of (very senior) post in the UK civil service, back in the sixties. What she would make of A+'s brand of self-pitying bleating I hate to think.SoggyMoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12357790920813258281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3003200974688946575.post-78079508057750412952012-09-08T04:41:26.624-07:002012-09-08T04:41:26.624-07:00Hi Maria,
Wonderful to hear from you, thank you f...Hi Maria,<br /><br />Wonderful to hear from you, thank you for your words of support! I understand you've had a pretty hard time yourself with some of this stuff (far worse than I've been getting). Would you be willing to DM me your email address on Twitter so we can have a chat? (Confidential, of course.)<br /><br />Thanks lovely. xxxSoggyMoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12357790920813258281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3003200974688946575.post-60911970813233016702012-09-08T04:37:37.788-07:002012-09-08T04:37:37.788-07:00Brian, that's a new one on me (I'd never h...Brian, that's a new one on me (I'd never heard of Marcotte before she wrote about me). Could I possibly impose upon you to ask for a link, do you think?<br /><br />Thanks for your words of support, guys, they're much appreciated. xxxSoggyMoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12357790920813258281noreply@blogger.com